Join Tom Touchstone and Steve Suthers on 'Muscle Matters' as they explore the financial costs and sacrifices involved in competing in the sport. From expensive supplements to strict diets and training regimens, Tom and Steve share personal experiences and insights into the challenges faced by bodybuilders. They also discuss the Dark Secrets of Bodybuilding. Find out what they are on this latest episode.
[00:03:46] Musings of a Former Soviet-Era Bodybuilder: Navigating the World of Performance Enhancers
[00:05:41] Generational Perspectives: A Former Bodybuilder Reflects on the Evolution of the Sport and the Impact of Performance Enhancers
[00:14:57] Confessions of a Bodybuilder: Navigating the World of Cosmetic Enhancements and the Price of Perfection
[00:17:51] Bodybuilding Dilemmas: The Struggle Between Individual Expression and Industry Expectations
[00:21:25] Changing Faces of Bodybuilding: Navigating the Risks and Rewards in the Era of Cosmetic Enhancements
[00:27:21] Beyond the Trophies: Wrestling with Health Challenges After the Glory Days of Bodybuilding
[00:29:51] Behind the Scenes of Bodybuilding: Navigating Management, Money, and the Rabbit Hole of Decisions
[00:34:51] Physique Evolution: The Challenge of Consistency in Bodybuilding and the Quest for Improvement
[00:36:36] Clash of Titans: The Unspoken Competition and Mind Games Behind the Scenes of Bodybuilding
[00:42:20] Classic Physique: The Bridge Between Generations in Bodybuilding
[00:43:18] Digital Age Dilemma: The Evolution of Bodybuilding Media and the Quest for Accessibility
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Speaker Tom Touchstone: I think there's a confusion between all the divisions because people are like, oh, I saw this and I have to ask, well, did they have beach trunks on? That was the the what do they call that now? The The physique. The physique. And if they have black trunks on, that's called the classic. And people look at me and go, why? Oh, it's Tom era. Wow. We're gonna never believe this. We're on Spotify. We're on Apple. We're on Google. Go out there and listen to us, so we're excited about it. We're glad you're excited about it too. We're gonna talk today about a sport that Steve and I love. And, we we got a let's first talks about the toxicity of our sport that we love bodybuilding. We know it's you and I both fell on the negative side of health that sport through some of our chemical usage, and I my steroid use has been out there in my story since I was bodybuilding. I never understood why tell the truth Steve. I people had asked me, do I do steroids? I go, did the sun come up this morning? I go, yes, I do because you can't compete at the level that competing at with these guys.
Speaker Steve Suthers: The body won't synthesize that much protein that's needed.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It it it's just that, you know, it's part of a demand of a sport and it it was Christie. It wasn't illegal when I did it. It came through the mail, and it was reasonably priced.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Oh, you mean the the Atlas thing where he was sitting and debotted kids?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: No. No. I could order Diana Ball, hundred mill you mean, ten milligrams, hundred tab Tom come in a a UPS package?
Speaker Steve Suthers: That's that was that whole chart. When I found out that Charles Atlas is, the the His program. The comic books, the kid.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Kick the skinny kid on the vehicle.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes. And he was sitting De Ball and was sending these kids De Ball bills.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, well, De Ball ended up in supplements. Remember that? Yes. That was the secret ingredient. You and I thought Steve. Or no, orange? Ultimate or. There was some good stuff. That if you didn't get into the first or second run, you missed the good stuff.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Oh, yeah. Because There's a certain one of your friends that were a pop in the eighties, his company does that as well. I'm I'm I'm preserving your friend's shipment. Yeah. We're a little old rat. His first line is always loaded.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: You don't wanna rat the guys out. But, you know, we we can talk about it. I guess so, you know, you know, when it gets personal, Steve, I think the union have because there again, this guy is I just sent you another guy this week.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: And on our set tonight, you got asked other people about, nutrition. And this is the only guy I trust. I'm serious. I mean, I've sponsored by TwinLab. I've been sponsored by a company called BioCell. I've been on all the Weeder products. And so so I am determined because I didn't have my integrity because I was not a believer back then, and I would tell people to take stuff that didn't work.
Speaker Steve Suthers: That was when I was a manager of, of, of GNC. Oh. That was at twenty twenty one, and I was a manager of GNC. I knew every product that had ten dollars or more a commission. And I sold
Speaker Tom Touchstone: This works for that. Right.
Speaker Steve Suthers: It's a Wakeainer. It says Wakeainer on there. Just take half the servings. Tada. So we're talking to you from experience. There
Speaker Tom Touchstone: again. Got paid in money, real money to tell my pictures taken with products I didn't use. So I made a real big thing.
Speaker Steve Suthers: You know what was amazing about products is I remember when I got my sponsor with my protein company. Uh-huh. And it was an out of out of country protein, and I gained ten pounds. And why I found out that all protein is not created equal and that's when I went down the rabbit hole of understanding that It's a rabbit hole.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I was a body builder when the Soviet Union was still around. And and so the closer I could get to the East, European countries, the better the products got. It it the closer to the boarder you got, the more lively the products got, I could go get my blood work done from American doctor, and they say you get off the, you know, nowadays what do they call it? The gear? Yeah. You know, when you get off the gear, I said, I'm not off the I'm not off the gear. I'm still on it. They go, well, your blood works great. Thank you. So I needed it to dope. And then I got phone calls from people from my doctor, but tell him, hey. Go talk to Tom. He's got some, gear. What what is what is the name for? Because you it's gear now. It used to be juice.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yeah. It's still it's still gear.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: And and and before the steroids came out, it was called Royitz. You could you could talk in in front of, lay people and say Roy's, and they wouldn't even know what you're doing.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I I tell so many people that come in and they they ask me about TRT, and they're they're always looking somebody to sell it. I'm like, are you over thirty? They're like, yeah, I'm gonna go to a hormone replacement
Speaker Tom Touchstone: doctor. Yeah. Why are you trying to grow fake stuff.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Grown men with a job, and you wanna go buy out of the toilet in the in the back of the gym. Go to the doctor's office.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Absolutely. So so so the history of our sport has always been PED inspired. That's, performance enhancing drugs and cast fifteen will qualify because it just means keep going up on the dosage of caffeine. Yeah. Kaffeine self is on a PED. Have you seen some of the things these kids do? If you wanna see your performance enhanced, do caffeine in a large quantity. I
Speaker Steve Suthers: used to have a kid that would come in. And he would brag to me how he would take Red Bull with one three dimethal products. And I'd like to go, you have one heart. It's one heart. If you can't fill one three in caffeine anymore, a fadron and caffeine, if you can't fill it anymore, it's time to take a break and let your receptors reset.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. It's it's But you know what, Steve? Because ever, you know, in in the sport that we love as it's been through the years, and I, you know, I was big in the seventies eighties, retired in eighty seven you know, and so if I see things now and and I really got more active and you went with me to this show this year's first bodybuilding show I've been to. And, My son-in-law started asking me questions. Do you Steve my I I've told you, my son-in-law will text about a guy and say my friends are saying that he's Natty and I'll go to you and you're like, no way. Because it's now affecting my son-in-law. This morning was in high school playing football, Fresno Steve. Right? And so and and so when it personal for me. I told Danny, I go, these guys, every one of them you Steve, is on something. And if they are saying they aren't, they're lying. I remember when the liver king came out and he goes, Tom, there's guy swearing and I I go, he could swear that where climate change is real. I'm just teasing you guys. That's another show we do. I'm just saying it I mean, he's not then when it came out that he was lying, you know, my son, was started giving me more, my son lost more credibility for Tom because I just know the sport. It's in a sport of excess. If it doesn't work in small things do more, we see that with training, we see that with every every line they try to cross or enhance, we we see excessive.
Speaker Steve Suthers: In there's the the bad thing is so many of these bodies are built off the gear. Like, they don't even give their chant their body the chance to develop anymore. I I remember guys with these youngsters would come up to be and brag to me how they were on gram after gram after gram after gram. They're running three, four thousand grams plus this much in this much at HGH and they brag and be like, oh, that's because, this top level body builder takes it, and I would look and go, well, Why don't you look like them?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I I love your saying. I've used that several times, Steve, because I think it's creative. Well, I I I I tell people, and and this is just my experience. I found my journal, and I'm a journal, I journal everything, and I do electronically now individually But I I found my journal. I used to record my workouts. I used to record my my food intake. I did this before I even stepped on a, a city stage in an open division, teenage divisions. And I remember, I found after I already won a lot of open shows. I mean, I don't even like to talk about the ones you win anymore because I stripped of titles from the Aau because I like the NPC better, which it is a better organization if you want quality. And people would say when that came out, why did I switch? I go, I wanted to win a show and be the best, I'm competing with the best. You know, you're the same way. You did that with power lifting and you did that with with bodybuilding. And so, as as I did, as I progressed, I remember an an entry in a a journal that I found after my mom passed away, Tom old house that I lived in, when I was young growing up, that journal talked about it, and I found a page where twenty one, I did Antibolix. But I had already been through my sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one years. And at that point, I was winning some major state shows. And I and I and they were my and my Suthers and everybody said, hey, Tom, you gotta take some. I showed somebody a picture the other day because muscular development's sad story. Without a print. You know, they they're not printing anymore. And
Speaker Steve Suthers: so it's such a disappointment.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: We'll come
Speaker Steve Suthers: back to that one in a minute. It's disappointment.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: And so I sent a picture because guys were posting, I go, this was a, you know, a this was a, a photo shoot I did for muscular development when they were printing it, back in, you know, as twenty. And they're like, well, how much did you weigh? And I go, I I came into shows at two nine 02:10. And I was about 02:22 thirty five you know, because back then, I mean, we're still trying to go off and on the gear. Yes. Yes. And so and they're like, oh, you couldn't be that. I was. I mean, I I go, I know how old I was. So I was big and strong before I started gear. I I let Go figure that. Yeah. Yeah. And and as as you're there, you wanna start doing a PED, but like you said, Steve, be careful, even with caffeine, a Fedron, and Well,
Speaker Steve Suthers: they come out the gate on every got it. Like Yeah. Like, you have to take all that just to win a a Rudy Poo show?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I I I was stunned, and I know we're gonna talk about Olympics. I was stunned by somebody. I don't know which,
Speaker Steve Suthers: I'll throw them under the bus for you.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I don't know. I've I've don't know which it might have been Vox. Fox. There's another, body building, thing. They always ask you to join. And, and I saw an article that talked how much it was interesting, how much the Olympians are paying for a show, for annual cost. And I saw the annual cost, and I do know the payouts are. And so that means a majority of the athletes are going home. Broke. Well, more than broke. Is. I had a friend at mortgage's house to take GH back in the day, and he wasn't taking it right because he didn't gain any weight. He just got shredded And I said, well, you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're sitting out. You know, your body is creating antibodies. Are you seeing somebody to give you an antibody blocker? And he goes, no. And Well, you just mortgage your home. Hope you could pay for your home again because you just got a second on it. So, I mean, there's people out there only to risk their financial or their current financial status for a dream that's not gonna happen.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I I remember I I know I was on the low in and how much a show Tom me?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I can't even imagine. Low in. And and not only does it cost you in the money it takes at preparation food. The time away from normal people, because they don't you don't wanna be around them, and they really don't wanna be around you. If the quest if you're out there and you're competitive, Your family regrets being around you during show prep. Right? You don't do normal things.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Right? I remember rolling my window up and driving away from my Tom, and she calls me on the phone. She goes, where are you going? I go, weren't you done talking? She goes, no, I was catching breath. I was like, well, I'm gone now. Bye.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I walked through the front door. My brother tells the Steve. I walked through the front door on a Thanksgiving or Christmas. And I left LA, came back, so I walked through front door put the presses down, and I go, these people are too happy. I go, I walked out the back door, went home. My brother called me when I got home because there weren't cell phones in those days. And he said, did you go home? And I go, I did? He goes, why? I go
Speaker Steve Suthers: I haven't ruined everything. I I
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I said, I, you know, I came and I was like, I can't. I mean, I'm not a happy person right now. I'm I'm struggling. I'm struggling with diet. And, you know, it wasn't because I wasn't eating food. I just was not eating food I wanted to eat. I was eating a ton of good food, and I was taking a ton of drugs that were, you know, throwing me up and down and I was just a I was a basket case to be around.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I remember being inside a twenty four hours being able to smell Popeyes, jacking up, or Oh. I smell all the fast food restaurants on this stair meal through the walls.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It it it
Speaker Steve Suthers: it yeah.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I used to go grocery shop. I had a friend Roy Latemar, and we would go to a grocery store and just think about the food. We could eat the day after a show. That's a sickness. That's not normal, guys. Just telling you it's not. I I I I found myself today, Steve. We used to do a thing called red light red light and br we used to call things stoplights and bridges because when we would come to one, if we got under a bridge, we would flex the muscle group until we got another bridge. And it would be like a competition. So then we would do stoplights. Today, I was filling out my truck, and I found myself doing calf raises. I go, what am I doing? That's a habit. So I used to always say, well, I'm gonna get ahead. I'm gonna just do calf raises until My gas tank filled up. And and then I got in and I go, oh, I have a catheter pump. That's pretty cool. I used to do that. Why did I do that? Oh, I did it because I was I I just, like, I gotta I gotta maximize every We could not train.
Speaker Steve Suthers: We could not train enough. It's weird here. People say that they be out of the gym in this amount of Tom, and it's like I couldn't train enough.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Oh my gosh. It's just so so so as you're out there and this may be a you're loving. I get it. I get it. You know, a lot of guys wanna look good and a lot of the guys that are Instagram are are, influencers this area, you most of them don't compete. Right? You know, they just wanna look good. And, I I always like this guy because come and I'll say, so what am I not seeing this picture? He goes, he's got terrible legs because he doesn't train his legs. And he got amazing delts or he's got oily delts, or he's got amazing There's
Speaker Steve Suthers: this guy that go, oh, he's We're going down that rat hole. So He he this they sit up here as deltra out here. He was ed ed sent it to me the other day. He goes, and the guy he's doing, he's showing his favorite shoulder routines. And he goes, he forgot to mention, Cynthia. And I was like
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, well, I saw older guy the other day. Yes.
Speaker Steve Suthers: That's what we're talking about. Oh, I In the blue cut off shirt.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yes. And I was looking at going the dude is what? Steve, and I'm like going He did sentinel because, I mean, that was
Speaker Steve Suthers: They see the traps Suthers. They're not they're just a big lump that just touches his ear.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: There's no shape. I I I looked and I go, wow. There's no way not even symmetrically. I mean, you can't even get that angle if you wanted to for how your muscle developed in that way. And I go, hey, so and his quote was, well, hey, I still got it at sixty. I go, no, you don't. You got that at twenty or twenty one, and it threw a needle. That wasn't hard work, and you're stuck with it till you die. You know? So and he's thin now. And so they're becoming more pronounced. I mean
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Sorry if that's you.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: You know, I and and I'll wrap myself out and I've done it on your show before because there was a thing called Escaline. I'll never forget it. My, you know, and if you go through a dice, funny, you'd you'd ever have a problem when a body part would start to fail and you're like, I'm doing whatever. I've go through my pages and my notes going, but nothing different. It just decides to do something. So Escaline was a cosmetic drug. A lot of guys used it in. And and so what it did was it aggravated your muscle tissue because it's like injecting alcohol. And it was stung like alcohol. I tell my ex wife, give me a shot of escalating in my calf and, get out of the room. I it took a few minutes I could walk because all the liquid in my body went straight down there because they were traumatized. But it would fill up with water. You would be devoid of any separation of the musculature, but you're just trying I was just trying to go on a show balanced, you know, and and so I'm not saying we didn't I didn't do things. So don't sit out there and say I'm preaching from a, a,
Speaker Steve Suthers: on the Soapbox. Yes.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I mean, because I'm guilty of this. But there has to be some there's gotta be a crossing point, and I do think that Olympia So many people saw a picture of the winner, and I'll I'll lock saying his name, and I sent you the picture that I saw the next morning. No. And and I and I I I've seen my picture get used several other times because he just got on the internet because I sent it, and I circled a few things and I said, is this is what you're talking about oil? And he said, and Steve's like, absolutely. Cause the problem was the oil started to drain know. Like oil does.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Well, no. That's not a drainage. That's if you look at his pictures, that is where he's shot it, and he he probably did it himself. And most of most of the pros are going to cosmetic doctors. Yes. And they're getting it done cosmetically. So they don't end up looking like the guys from South America.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Uh-huh.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I think he shot his lats up himself and those are the deposits that are left.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, what was what's crazy is the day before the pockets weren't there because there are Oh, he's
Speaker Steve Suthers: a daily he doesn't day out.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: So so so it something happened, because it looks like somebody just put a half of a softball under You
Speaker Steve Suthers: know what? Farm putts. We're smarter than this. He just pulled the water out. So he's he just pulled the water out in that pocket's there.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. It just because it because it because I I saw how so so as you're out there, you're getting to a point where when I was and this I'm gonna get on a soapbox again. So when I was competing, and and I know it's back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. So don't get on me, but you can if you wanna say something. But If you had a tattoo, you you got You've marked down. Yes. That was a defect in your body.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes. That's one of the reasons I I got when I started Tom competing is when I got my
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I got naked because and it's not because I probably wouldn't want it to tattoo because I wanted a earring, you know, and it was denied having earring by Joe Leader. So, I mean, Joe's dad addresses. So but, I mean, he owned me. So he's like, I don't want you to change your image. Irring's gonna change your image. I go, yeah. I wanna look cool. He goes, that's not your image. You're all American. All Americans can't look cool. You know? And and I get where they were going with me. I get it. I mean, I, you know, one time they printed an article that had kids. My wife, and I didn't have kids. And Joe Eater asked me one Tom, well, how who knows you have who does who knows that you don't have kids? I go, my friends. He goes, They don't count. Seven million people read muscle and fitness and flex. You have kids. Make up name for them, Tom. Get over yourself. This is the entertain an industry. You know, I was like, okay. But but but so so as you're out there, I didn't have a tattoo because they were they would be graded down of how having a tattoo. And and implants were a no no. It's horrible in the women's division. And and so implants and and implants weren't good in the seven late seventies and eighties. They just the surgery wasn't as good. So I had some friends had some really terrible jobs that disappeared from, bodybuilding because they'd have implants and then have them taken out. And then that's two years of your of training. You know you're never getting that back. It's not happening. It's not I got injuries all over my body because I couldn't take six months off to recover because I I I got a train. I mean, you take six months off. See you later. Never forget about you. Yeah. Sirenara. Yeah. Good luck. So so so if you're out, it's so so oil. I mean, it's it's is is it a pro how far down does it go? Is it go down to small. I remember, to the novice divisions?
Speaker Steve Suthers: I remember when it first got prevalent. And, what was his name? The promoter, the coast promoter.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: John Lindsey? John Lindsey.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Okay. And Just friend
Speaker Tom Touchstone: of mine. I like that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: John Lindsey got on his soap box and he preached to everybody. He yelled at all of us.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Meaning, you're the athlete. You're you're in the athlete meeting.
Speaker Steve Suthers: If you get caught, and that stuff in my shows. I and it was right.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: And he was a promoter.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And it was right at the right at I would say I I was ninety 90s two mid two thousand to mid two thousand. So I wanna say it was right to that ninety two thousand swing. And he was on there, and he was if I catch anybody If
Speaker Tom Touchstone: you're doing a John Lindsey show, that's a great show. Yeah.
Speaker Steve Suthers: In California, and he was just on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on it. And I remember the guy that was getting followed around that day by Muscular Development. They were taking pictures of me. I don't know what happened to those pictures. I think they're on his wall somewhere. Bank. No.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: They they they, you know, Steve, they will surface. Trust me.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Those pictures are somewhere. They didn't make I
Speaker Tom Touchstone: there isn't too many months that don't go by. Somebody goes out. You, Tom? I don't. Yeah. I didn't. I forgot about that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: So I was feeling really good about myself as show. And, young man that came behind me, I'm not even gonna throw his name on the bus. If you wanna Google and look at different shows, that's up to you. And I remember, he turned around and looked at him Tom go, oh, But then I could see all the synthol marks. I was, oh, they're gonna he's gonna disqualify him. And he won the whole show. I got a muscular. He was he was the one who got the MB spread, not me.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: That crazy.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And I was like, but you just said. Yeah. And then I did the California that year, and that was the guy who went California, his hamstring wouldn't stop flexing.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Was it a constant flex?
Speaker Steve Suthers: And he won the cow heavyweight, the super heavyweights, and there was another guy walking around with a his bicep wouldn't stop flexing, and won the masters. And I
Speaker Tom Touchstone: was like, oh, this is
Speaker Steve Suthers: a new game. Oh, god. I'm bad.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: This is a new game. So so so it's crazy because when you start bringing in this even the cosmetics, because now we're saying you don't have to work out is working out is a secondary now. I mean, we look at athletes like Ronnie Coleman and those who have obvious injuries from surgeries that were caused from injuries that he had. So surgeries were necessary. And Ronnie, like you said, had, some surgeons that probably didn't perform the best on him. And he's, you know, in in, you know, using Kaines to walk with nowadays and things like that, but he is Tom, mister Olympia, you know, much better than me. I mean, obviously. But it's, it's a risky sport to begin with now people might say, well, to get that twenty inch bicep, I don't have to lift the weights that they did, or if I gotta get the quads, I can just inject some oil or go to the right oil guy and become something that I'm not really that. I mean, you you talk there again, I've got a friend and he, won three Mr. Olympias, named Frank Zane, and he was the chemist. You know? And and and he had a slider build And I don't knock Frank for that because, I thought he looked great. I always try to mimic Frank in in in in in a symmetrical fashion no matter how much muscle you had put on. And, and that was his era of the mid eighties, you know, and so whatever. It's it's it's okay to have a slight build, and you can do a lot with it.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Well, you got these guys is like, okay. Let's let's let's factor in the Olympia guys. Okay. The current champion, he needed a bigger back in order to get there. Does he wait the five years to a bigger back or anything?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Because he's training harder risking injuries
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Because weights will give you an injury.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes. So, you know, do does he wait the five years it's gonna take or did he jump the jump the Yeah. So he jumps the curve and he deals with it. It's the blowback. What's the blowback? I remember, Rami when he walked out and you could tell that his quads were just full of the Steve. And it was like, It didn't make sense, but now Rami's body's done because it won't turn anymore.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Because you you you know, and this is what I think people don't realize. There starts to be a loss of respect. You know, and I'm not saying that you didn't need to do it. But, I mean, where's that genueness that I worked hard to develop this.
Speaker Steve Suthers: There's the loss of respect is our generation. Yeah. From me back. From them forward, there's no loss of respect because they want it now.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah.
Speaker Steve Suthers: So you've got these eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one year olds who are shooting their shoulders up so they can have a bigger shoulder. And they don't realize that Anything you do early? Well, I know. It's gonna affect you later.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It's it's it's safe. So at
Speaker Steve Suthers: least in these eyes. Derek was a 02:12 champion. So he was the 02:12 champion before he became the the mister Olympian. So you got the 02:12 champion He won already before he decided to even mess with that stuff. So he was already peak physical and so and I hate this stuff, but it Steve same time, it makes, you know, okay, cool. You
Speaker Tom Touchstone: You've gained an instant forty pounds
Speaker Steve Suthers: And without gaining a pound. Yes. Classic physique 02:12.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. And and and and and and and and he's got the title now.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Mhmm.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: And, you know, And and and as as we talk about this, it's at what cost because they also had a guy who I think went to the hospital a couple days And I forgot the young man's name.
Speaker Steve Suthers: It was Brandon. He, he's, they said he was said he had a ulcer.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: So So it that's and that's good, and we'll go with that. Right. Yeah. But there is things in our industry that we realized, because I I was telling somebody the other day, we were talking about bodybuilding, and they said, what were some of your hesitations? I go. My first hesitation about the sport was when My heart went into defib because of a problem with potassium sodium. And I had to go to a doctor and they inject him a heart with a muscle relaxer, and, it, allowed me to not die. And he's like, you're probably gonna keep doing this. And I was like, well, just tell me what my blood work is, and I'll fix this. And as I came into the second time, and did it again, I started questioning my decisions because this these were these were, like, six weeks out of a show. That was, you know, working just with a a sodium potassium.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I tell people all the time. The day you walk on that stage and you can echo this. The day you walk on that stage and you look this fantastic person, you're you're walking death. You're within seconds of dying You it's just it's so you feel the worst. It's it's not a good it's just not good. And people do it the time. I don't get it. I agree. Yeah, but that'senthal. Okay. We could be beat up to Cynthia all day. Gonna go to a certain person, and I'm gonna call them out because they're the person's gonna be a friend of yours.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It's okay. Tom mean, wait. Yeah. You don't have to call them.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And,
Speaker Tom Touchstone: they might get it and send me a nasty text.
Speaker Steve Suthers: There was a certain guy that was top know he was in the top six. And you could tell his body was done and he's young. Oh, I know. He It he he got a gift of being that high. You could see the skin sagging and the hardness was gone. And I was like, that's an old man body on a very young man. The receptors are dying. They're not accepting it anymore.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: You know, there's so many, I I think everybody has to take responsibility for what they do. And, as I've got I had stage four kidney disease. I'm down to stage Tom. I got a hard issue. You and I always talk about that. You helped me so much with that. But I'm still dealing with it. And this is long after the trophies tarnish. Mhmm. And it's, you know, I mean, recognition will leave you. I remember when Sean was looking for some pictures, and he goes, Tom, there's no pictures out there. I go, because I'm as been. I go, I'll send you something. Not a lot out there.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And that's why I see a lot of these junctures, and they they the way I and it was my mindset, and it's me. So I'm just talking about My mindset was, okay, cool. I'll do this much to win a local show. If I win the local show, I will step this much forward Yeah. To do a national show because now because
Speaker Tom Touchstone: it's a deal with yourself.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Well, because there's something involved here. If I turn pro, I might make some money. Yeah. I'm not making any money over here. When I get here, there's some money involved. Now I was blessed to get a sponsorship here, but here money involved. This just got me free protein.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah.
Speaker Steve Suthers: This might give me some money.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: From here, I knew I'd be willing to go there. And the willing is How far you take your point?
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes. Because I knew each step of the way, I was going to have to increase. Yeah. So I knew that if I wanted to be mister Olympia, I was gonna have to take even more. So I was like, if I have to take that much stuff just to get past the local level, I'm not gonna be mister Olympian. What's the point?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It's it's one of those things, Steve, because people have dreams and aspirations. Mine was honestly, to win the America, and I came one spot short And I didn't want an inspired to go on. And, and I do remember saying it's not worth it because of my experiences with my heart.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And you were making money. You were you were you were sponsored. I'm making money. You were getting free clothes, free shoes, television, ads.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: You were making money people are sending me checks. Yes. I mean, Steve, I was telling somebody in the day, and he goes, you know, in and I don't think the personal appearances are there anymore, but I used my fee was twenty five hundred bucks for six minutes on stage. You know, I mean, they're like, well, that's a lot of money for six like, oh, it's not the six minutes. It's the decade it took to Gidier. And if, you know, if you if you're, you know, back then, all those posters were the only media
Speaker Steve Suthers: You're not spending all Tom money picasso because it's an art painting.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It's b s minute because of what picasso skills. So so people would always complain. I go, well, I got a manager who's gonna make some money, and he's not gonna let me do anything that he's not making on. That's it's no here's his phone number calling. I mean, it just was one of those things that it kinda just led you down a rabbit hole because you had to keep making those decisions. And it wasn't like when I, you know, when I I the last show I placed, I did well in because I came in steroid free, but not PED free. I mean, I was doing some anabolic, I was doing thiol mute case.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Just the ones that don't pop on the on the p test.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yes. And and so I was, I saw I I I was doing that, but I was going because the test is what was gonna keep people out of the universe, and I wanted to go on.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Mhmm. You
Speaker Tom Touchstone: know, I was like, okay, the gear is not gonna get me that first place because there, again, some of the pictures I get sent now is me stuck between Tom Twelliger, Sean Ray, Vince Taylor. I we're all to Steve. And I was like But it's not a bad place to be stuck between
Speaker Steve Suthers: because one of them were top five Olympians at one point.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, I know, but I'm just saying. So with people sending pictures, I go, oh, yeah. That was a lineup, and, I don't look the best one there because they they they they went on. So so you have to be willing to take a chance. And I'm not sure people are willing or want to take that chance.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Now when you watch the Olympics, we're stop being critical. Let's go back to our love. What did you think? We'll Steve in the top three. We'll we'll stay in the top three. What did you think of the top three?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Of this one last Yes.
Speaker Steve Suthers: This last one.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I thought that the guys that I liked didn't even make the top three.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And which ones were those?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, yeah, it's funny because I don't remember names. I remember physiques. Okay. But I do know as Landford One, I looked at it. This isn't a pleasing physique for me. And then as I looked down at Haddy, I if I had to pick from between the top three, I'd have picked Heddy. I, I liked him I liked the work that he puts in, and I do know that he comes from a area where They are the new
Speaker Steve Suthers: We'll come to we'll come back to that one.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. That is the new new place. And maybe there's a part two of this show on that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Mhmm. You'll come to that one. But that
Speaker Tom Touchstone: is the new, Oh,
Speaker Steve Suthers: I thought you were gonna talk about his representation at the Olympia.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: No. No. I'm saying that he's coming from an area that they have more gear than anywhere, and a lot of Americans go there now to do their gear.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Oh, man. It's not to do their gear. We'll come
Speaker Tom Touchstone: What is it then? Tell me.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Okay. Imagine you near Hey Day. Uh-huh. Okay. This year, heyday, you're you're training hard. You know how expensive this sport
Speaker Tom Touchstone: is. Uh-huh.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Some guy calls you up told you to come live in his palace for six months.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I'm gonna pay every bill you have. So I'm gonna pay all your home bills. I'm gonna pay Oh, I get it. I'm gonna sure your wife has money.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I gotcha.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I'm gonna make sure everything's fed there.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I want you to be in my house.
Speaker Steve Suthers: You're just gonna be here working out here. I have a doctor with at twenty four Steve. There's a chef with you twenty four. So why these guys are coming back forty, fifty pounds heavier, could you imagine not having to do anything for six months?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yes. I I there again, there it's it's the team.
Speaker Steve Suthers: You you you you gotta you soon as you get done training, you've got a doctor He does your blood work every day. He checks your hormone level.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, there again, I got a I got a, tired practice a judgment and massage every day. Yes. And it was a bother to me, Steve. I go. I can't go with you guys because I gotta go get a massage. Nowadays, I would I wish I had that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I'd be So when when they walked through I I'm with you. When they walked out, my eyes went to Derek. Derek had the better x frame. Mhmm. But the longer they posed, the more I was Tom Hati. The longer they, like, Hoddy came on, and I watched Derek fade. I said this man didn't do his homework.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It's it's it's one of those things where if you're seeing your body be, internally expanded. It's going to leave.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And his left. I had it. I moved him from first to third. I not the biggest Samsung fan. I am not a big Samsung fan. I think he's got a lot of holes. I know he's the new it and, like, and, like, you know, he at least reminds me of a nineties body builder.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: When you say he's a new it, isn't it a given nowadays? Because you we can watch football. I'm a, packer fan in So Jordan loves the Bakersfield products, so I really wanna see him succeed. And so I'm willing if they give him another year because I know he's young and he'll be
Speaker Steve Suthers: back. Mhmm.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: But is that the state disobody Billing anymore. Is it is it just because they were there this year looked great? Because they gramsie looked great when everybody said, he hit it nails on.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Mhmm.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: And and he's not been back to repeat that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: His his body fell apart.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. But I'm just saying he's not back. So you can't take and ex and and I think we have to say this is sometimes an experiment, isn't it, Steve? I mean, for me going from one show to the next, I could have the same notes that I'm looking at myself going the same body.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: You know, and so as as you have other sports that, you know, if they're, you know, having a time or a a a talent, that when you're presenting a physique that's based on, you know, you know, a depletion process, a expanding process, using drugs to mix in there, is that you you can't bring maybe the same. It's there again. When Lee Haney was in and Lee Haney was winning, you know, you just saw Lee Steve bring back the same package year after year. I mean, he were not talking about weight gain. We're just talking about bringing the same package and waiting for somebody to bring a better He
Speaker Steve Suthers: was he was so far out in front of it for everybody back then, though.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. I mean, you know, those top three, I mean, you know, Lee Labada would switch in with Richey. And, you know, you would you had but but the the contest was for second, third. Yes. It was yeah. Then you brought in Sean and you brought in Flex, and you brought in, Vince, and you brought in Chris, come here.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Ah, I missed those beautiful studies.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: So so so then but it was always Lee because, like you said, he was years ahead, And his physique really never changed. It just was the same package here after year. So there was something about that. You knew where Lee was coming. You knew what his left. We're gonna have this beautiful suite. You knew he was having a hard time with his biceps. You just knew that, but there was no glaring problem that didn't get fixed next year by forty pounds.
Speaker Steve Suthers: All the guys that were big enough to stand him. I don't know. This is my personal opinion as a child looking at those things. They just didn't seem to
Speaker Tom Touchstone: One one of my one of my best friends, Roy Latemar, had a physique similar to lease. But Roy's problem is he can never bring the physique in on the day of the show.
Speaker Steve Suthers: That's where I
Speaker Tom Touchstone: was going. You look at him three days before nails on. No one's beating him. Got to walk into a, athletes meeting, for a contest at Roy and I were at for Gol's gym as, you know, it was they were my sponsor. Roy never made my life easy with those guys, but if you're really listening, you know, the reason, you know, because they didn't like him. And that was easy to do for Roy back in the day. And the people used to tell me Tom, Roy's not good career. I go, okay. But he's my friend. He's good for my life. And and I didn't make friends based on my career. And so as Rory was Eric, man, he came in, we worked now. We walked into the athlete's meeting by mistake. And Lee was there, and everybody's like, Roy. Lee, take your shirt off by Roy. And Lee acted like he didn't pay attention to him. And finally, lee's like, I'm not taking off my shirt. Roy just worked out and looks great. I'm not I'm not doing it. You know? Smart. Because Roy had a big
Speaker Steve Suthers: Somebody went ahead of camera.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Roy had a big beautiful physique, but if there was no stress to bring it in parallel stage.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Because you had what Mike, Bernal Fox?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Oh, you had yeah. Well, you had you you had Bobby Paris. You had Rory, you had my my Christian, you had, league aspari, you had lee, Labrada,
Speaker Steve Suthers: I just mean the guys that were big enough to stand next week. Oh, yeah.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the upper well, that would be Bobby Perez. That'd be Roy Lydel Meyer. You had a guy named John Brown. You had, any more heavyweights there that would come in? Probably not. That was Christian, Paris. And and when the when the when those crowds went out, you had Troy Zaccolato Troy was, you know, out there, but Troy didn't have that physique like Lee or Rory.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And that's what that's what made, vic.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Oh, yeah. Look beautiful because of
Speaker Steve Suthers: the roundness. They everybody thought he would be the one because he he was big enough and prettier than but he never put it on stage. So let's go back to the modern day. So they're gonna say we're being old dogs reminiscing about when
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I keep looking for our time here. And I'm like, we at.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Oh, just look for a clock. I I know about what time we started. Oh. So, we'll I guess that Samsung's body, I I get why white people like it. He's he's he is not oiled up at least as far as I could tell. He turns around, the hamstrings, the the quads, the calves, everything has that flex wheeler, Vince Taylor, look. It's not it's not a balloon. A lot of the guys you can look and just be like, it's
Speaker Tom Touchstone: There there you you your weight has changed twenty pounds, but the muscle isn't there that's produced that twenty pounds. It's like a balloon that you blew up, and now you're presenting.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Oh, let's do a what if? Okay. What if, do you think Nick would have won if he hadn't been there? If he hadn't have Torres three?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I see that was another young man. And, of course, we can say that the weights that they are having to lift to maintain that muscle seat in the Hammy area, in the that quad area, the poundage that they're
Speaker Steve Suthers: I saw that video he did when he tore it.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. I
Speaker Steve Suthers: thought he was doing too much.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. So so they're putting it on there, and I think it would have been a different game. I I really do.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I think this was a show to lose
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I I I think that would have been a different thing. I still like Hunter Labrada, and, I know with his dad and his physique, but I don't there again know if that's been it's brought to the point of can't go back. You know? I don't know. I mean, hey, great run, but, you know, inherit your debts nutrition company.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I don't know. They got a great life.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: And I likely I mean, you know, he beat my friend Johnny Arneeta. In. Yeah. And Johnny had a pleasant physique back then. If you go back into the the light, the middleweight class.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I have one last question for you. Is open body building did?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I think it is because I don't get and you and I went to a show where they had an amateur show and an open pro show and I was confused. I, you know, I'm looking at, okay, where we what are we trying to do? And I think I think they started losing some things because the next person, and I think your analysis of this about sebum moving into the open, I like your comment like as his liver and digestive system system good enough to allow him to eat the food that will require that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Right. People think it's the people think it's the drugs. Yeah. It's he's already on this the the gear. It's the same. It's not different.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah. So you've gotta do something to send you up to that class.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: So so I do think I think there's a confusion between all the divisions because people are like, oh, I saw this, and I have to ask, well, do they have beach trunks on. Oh, that was the the what do they call that now? The The physique. The physique. And if they have black trunks on, that's called the class people look at me and go, why? I know I don't know. It's not my era. I go, we just had one. We're all lumped in. And I see. And you flex in somebody goes, oh, you're the winner.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And I think a lot of the the open is dead because the generation that should be pushing them is happy getting it now. Yeah. So it's kinda hard. Like, I don't see all
Speaker Tom Touchstone: the Do do do you have any more Dexter Jackson's around?
Speaker Steve Suthers: If they're coming, they're coming from the Midwest if they are, because the West Coast is locked in. West Coast and and Florida areas, they're locked in in the classics. Yeah. Because there's nothing. I I like classic physique, so it's not a knock against it because because it is the eighties. Classic physique. I I think the I don't like the weight limit on it though. It needs to be a little bit heavier
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Do they have a super heavy on that one?
Speaker Steve Suthers: The the cap out, I think, is 02:45. It might be up to 02:50. That that
Speaker Tom Touchstone: that would have been a super heavy in my day.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yeah. But I'm the only one that can actually reach that is Chris, his bumstead. He's totally what talking about to reach it. But The younger generation, the now generation. Classic allows them to be able to compete now. You and I both know to be open. There's some time that you have to push away and you have to grow the muscle, you have to get there. Most open guys are in their late twenties, thirties and forties. Like, especially
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Are the forties winning though?
Speaker Steve Suthers: They're still winning. Well, I
Speaker Tom Touchstone: didn't know that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: And and it would
Speaker Tom Touchstone: because they have masters now. Didn't they do a master Olympia?
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yeah. I forget who won that one. The publicity for the olymp that I think that's another reason it's dying is publicity for a for a it I I went on a long rant on another podcast on how horrible their publication is run you can't watch a show without having to pay money, for the Olympic.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Let's say next year is gonna be free.
Speaker Steve Suthers: No. Arnold is free. Arnold's free. Arnold's free. Arnold's making it free. Hey, Tory. He's smart. Cause I I mean, I went on this long rant. Like, if I wanted to lick it two thousand twelve, mister Limpy, I I can't go to YouTube and watch it. I have to go and buy a DVD. Who watches that DVD anymore? There's not even available on streaming servers. I can't go to Amazon type it in and be like, I'll buy that for nine bucks. It is literally I forgot to buy a DVD. It is the dumbest thing in the world. I can't see the can you you can't go anywhere and find any clips of the Olympia unless you go Tom, like, some so and so's page. Like, one of the guys I like to watch is Nick's strength and power. So I have to go watch Nick's strength and power to see the Olympia. No more print.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I know.
Speaker Steve Suthers: You I used to be able to sit at the Albertsons and just look at the print and go, okay. Cool. That's how I found out. Think about it. When you read the nationals, you got to see the nationals US So you got to see who the top ten were, and you could go, oh, that guy's next.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yeah.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I don't know who's next. Yeah. I was watching, I saw something on, the, on Instagram, but it was a kid. And I was like, hey, who's that kid on the outside? I said, I don't follow body building like I used to. And they're like, oh, Steve is, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, I was like, I like his physique. They should have moved him in.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I like that.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I like that analysis. There's just the publicity is killing it because there isn't any anymore where it's a dead it's a dead art that was already a a cult art. Now it's just
Speaker Tom Touchstone: dead. And and it's hard to beat
Speaker Steve Suthers: the drums to drum that out and see When every when they're when when the powers
Speaker Tom Touchstone: that be are holding it Well, it's it's so tight. I got to ride the fitness revolution. How come they
Speaker Steve Suthers: don't have an app? Hey, if anybody out there that happens to work for the I have BB and PC, make an app. Like, you could make an app and they're pro I probably I know I'd spend ten bucks a month. I spend that much to watch watch Paramount Plus.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I had
Speaker Steve Suthers: give you ten dollars a month to be able to go and watch everybody building show in the world because I like body
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, well, it that's when football season come from. We watch football. Now you've got the, you know, summertime league, which isn't as good, but I like the fact that they inter interview a player after he made a great catch. Yeah. So what you think about when you made that catch is, well, I gotta go back in. Yeah. You know, I like that. I was like, oh, what I I was like, what are they gonna do and on these, summertime football shows, but they've added it. I mean, and it is watchable, but stands aren't there because people are are going to watch it in public.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes. I mean, ten bucks making a app. I'd watch it.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I mean, how great would that be? Hey. Well, there again. We're not picking on a sport we love. We are talking about a sport.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Ten dollars for an app. Make it.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: That we love that we feel is somewhat circling the dream. Do you know how
Speaker Steve Suthers: many people would you have to figure body building, how many publication magazines did weider sell about five, six million?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I hate seven million.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Seven million.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Well, no. That was in the when I retired We're just
Speaker Steve Suthers: gonna say we're just gonna say right there. Yeah. Yep. So seven million, if half a seven million people, two point five, I'm gonna help you guys
Speaker Tom Touchstone: with the math. Two ninety five is what it costs And I told you, Ritchie, sent me a copy of, a magazine that he was on the cover I was supposed to get, and I was on the inside, and I, but I had Tom cover, title on And he sent it to me, and it was selling for twenty nine dollars. But the price that I sold for knew in eighty four was two ninety wife.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yeah. So if somebody's pissed at us. You'd better look around and find you someone ebay inside him.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I told Ricky, he'd go, send me some. I was like So if you take I got one. My wife want
Speaker Steve Suthers: me to sell it.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: If you take three
Speaker Steve Suthers: point five million people by ten dollars, that is thirty five million dollars.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yes.
Speaker Steve Suthers: That you could make every single month dear ifbb by having a ten dollar app that'll let you a lot. So when when the Olympia comes, I don't have to give you ninety dollars. It's part of my ten dollar app that I'm giving you.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: It's a subscription.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Every Have a paywall. Right?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: We can do that. So so Steve was Jim Mannyon at the, I, Olympiar.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I don't know. I I
Speaker Tom Touchstone: know he's in trouble. I mean, the the, you know, the everybody gets in trouble nowadays and Jeff's in trouble with I I I I There's some allegations out there.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I watched, I watched, I found a I found a hot stream having on life.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: But but body building will protect its own. It there is it's always been known to do that, and they do. They do. They do. Like politics? Yeah. Kinda like politics.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Real quick. Okay. Let's finish up with the young man that I I like. Have you seen him yet nextzilla.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Yes. Well, he he catches my eye because he's done something with physique that is unique. He is he is taking the muscle bellies to a new level.
Speaker Steve Suthers: He's twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight. He's right in there. He's a baby.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: Oh, wow. Well, there again, I I like the nice round. I like that, and I liked it stretched out. He seems to have a little bit of a waist too.
Speaker Steve Suthers: He he suffers from Phil. He Phil Heath Titus, he's narrowed to the shoulders in the back.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: He has So that, but that does accentuate the trap. Yeah. So those stinks. They touch his ears literally.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Yes. So I think he suffers from a little Phil Heathism. Like, when Phil Heath came out, you could tell he was and he just needs to fill out. I think once he fills out, they're gonna hate the future Steve us.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: If and there again, like you said, if it takes it slow. A good friend of mine, and we gotta get him on the show. Vic Rick richards. He reminds me of him.
Speaker Steve Suthers: I mean,
Speaker Tom Touchstone: my mind went exactly Tom Vic. And I've told all the young guys, I don't make any question about when I got out of the sport. I saw the future, Sean Ray, vic Richards, I thought that Vick, you know, chose not to super stand on the Steve.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Because Did you imagine if social media was around when Vick was there? Because he was he was the people's champion before there was a people's championship.
Speaker Tom Touchstone: He was a people's champion after Roy Linemar. Roy, Roy Steve people will Roy will still you put a picture of Roy out there. He will still generate some older peoples. They'll go back to the eighty two America. I got robbed then.
Speaker Steve Suthers: How much money did men and I'll make?
Speaker Tom Touchstone: I think I think Matt made a lot when he was with Rachel.
Speaker Steve Suthers: Because he was on the g he was the GNC poster boy for umpteen million years. Was that a flat payout, or did he get No.